I saw at the Pulse that a gun on it's own ...

[Les / Vipers Rule]

came up inside an magically began spraying live ammo at other people...

EFF YOU OBAMA, EFF YOU HILARY, EFF YOU TO ALL WHO ARE TRYING TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE OF THE SLAUGHTER THE OTHER NIGHT TO ONE OF A WAR ON GUNS!!!

The G'dam gun did not on it's own mow down 103 people. SOME ISLAMIC ASSHOLE who now may look to have been a closeted gay or sexually confused SHOT ALL THESE INNOCENT PEOPLE!!! He did have in his case legal and well vetted based on his security job access to guns. Why would one think though he may not use other means, explosives, swords, knives, Hell just run over dozens with a car or truck?

BTW most gun crime in the USA is by ILLEGAL guns not legal. So no gun laws will deter such! In Orlando clubs/bars are said to be gun free zones yet a Muslim, nut job took his guns and entered anyways. By a similar analogy just like in Germany at public swimming pools they put up signs telling Muslim migrant males to NOT sexually harass females. YEAH AS IF A G'DAMN SIGN/LAW/RULE WILL IN OF ITSELF STOP THIS SHIT! No you meet force with force fuckers!!!

Chicago is a gun free city yet it has the highest gun crime the USA. CRIMINALS AND TERRORISTS DO NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOUR LAWS INCLUDING GUN LAWS!!!

Idiot liberals, socialists and 3rd wave feminists are all about taking legal guns away from citizens but also giving more (blind) power to police and the system who will also with criminals and terrorists have the guns. FUCKING NUTS!!!!

I'm no gun owner, in Canada we can get long arms and shot guns more or less pretty easy. But I feel no need for such. But if I was an American today I'd legally buy some hand guns, rifles and even maybe an AR-15 with a supply of ammo, not really out of any fear or paranoia against crime/terror in my day to day life but just to PISS OFF OBAMA, HILLARY and ALL THE OTHER FUCKING LEFTISTS/SOCIALISTS, IDIOT 3RD WAVE FEMINISTS AND OTHER RIGHTS/FREEDOM HATING ASSHOLES!

[Les / Vipers Rule]

IN OTHER WORDS YOU IDIOT ASSHOLES, your stupid war on legal guns is going to have the reverse effect. By not tackling Islam's war on us in the civilized world you will force people to greater rely on themselves and other like/similar minded folks.... Fucking the liberal left is so arrogant but also so fucking stupid on this stuff.

[tut]

Yeah but uhm...

sure there will still be illegal guns around. But Americas worst mass shooting in history has been performed with a legally acquired firearm.

calling this guy a muslim, though not a lie, means just as much as calling him left handed. Has nothing to do with this shooting. This is a shooting by a bipolar, mentally unstable nutjob,followed by the fbi, who, despite being all that, still just walked into a gunshop.and bought himself some firepower.
see what's wrong in this picture?


now i don't care about a second amendment. I don't care about Americas right to own guns, but surely it's not a farfetched idea to do a small background check on people before they are allowed a gun license, let alone a gun?

would this guy have bought an illegal gun instead? Who knows... Maybe..maybe not. Probably not... Would he have ran into a group of people with his car? Maybe. But that wouldn't have killed 49 people. Would he have blown up an airport? Unlikely, but that too apparently claims less casualties....

[Les / Vipers Rule]

tut,

Don't fall for the twisted narrative. He MURDERED in the name of Islam, not because he was said to be bipolar. Bipolar people are not just going around slaughtering innocent people. He bought his guns legally as he was a vetted and cleared SECURITY CONTRACTOR! It made it easy for him to buy and own such. But that is not why he MURDERED in the name of Islam. He attended a local Mosque 3-4 times per week said his current wife. A mosque that has an Imam who is on video saying one would be compassionate to kill homosexuals. A mosque where a prior US citizen suicide bomber attended. WHAT RHETORIC MAY BE SPOKEN AT SAID MOSQUE AND MAYBE BY ITS IMAMS!?!?

Be it shooting in this case with a legal gun or him buying an illegal one if he could not illegally has NOTHING to do with guns. It's all about indoctrination to a violent in this case jihadist mindset. Islam is at war with us in the rest of the civilized world, to deny it is to put one's head in the sand. Guns are not the story, but the sick perversion of radical Islam and it's global jihad on us all is. From Mosques to Madrassahs, this poison is being given to those who follow Islam. Islam in its purist form is 100% incompatible with western, developed, democracies. It will remain so until it is confronted in all ways and even forcibly by a global community to in the end enforce its REFORMATION as Christianity did hundreds of years ago.

[Les / Vipers Rule]

The leftist, social justice warrior narrative is that one can't go after and/or attack all of one religion for the terrible acts of one or some who are of said religion, BUT! it is totally fine to go after ALL who are lawful owners of firearms in the USA because of the actions of one or some. Talk about typical leftist BAT SHIT NONSENSE!

BTW he used a Sig Saur MCX. Yes a semi-auto rifle like the AR-15, but it was not an AR-15 to be clear ok? The AR-15 is NOT a weapon of war as Hillary is saying today. It's military brother the M-16 is. The AR-15 is a .556 cal. semi-automatic rifle and only LOOOOOKS SCARY to Democrats, socialists, feminists and other libtards. In reality a guy say with most any other semi-auto hand gun is a a possible greater threat as he can better conceal it. But again it's not about the damn gun, but about the poisoned mind of an Islamic terrorist. For any persons to deflect the narrative from the obvious and especially one running for POTUS cough, cough KIllary or one who will go down in history as one of the lousiest Presidents Obama is despicable.

[sombrio]

So the "war on guns" does not and cannot work because (1) most of the activity is illegal anyway, (2) laws don't deter people from committing crimes, and (3) it's an affront to personal freedom.

Going by the premises stated above, I must conclude that you're in favor of legalizing all drugs. Get out of here with that pinko commie shit, hippie.

[Les / Vipers Rule]

[tut]

if that shooter guy was a radicalised muslim, then why was he gay? why was he commonly found drunk? those are very unmuslim things to do.

calling that shooter a radicalised muslim is like calling trump sanders. it's VERY inaccurate.

and the fact that you yourself bring it up that even muslims between their "sectors" are killing one another, again shows that it's not to do with islam, but with their "tribes".

you said that islam is incompatible with modern society. same goes for christianity, amish people, zoroastrianism, drug use, windows phones...




i particularly like how you say you don't want to brush all gun owners with the same brush "just because a couple of rotten potatoes spoil it for the rest of us" and go and mow down hundreds of people. yet you're super eager to ban and kill all muslims cause they kill tens of people.

you don't want to take away the freedom of people owning guns yet you want to take away an entire religion.

[sombrio]

[the_edge]

Hey guys -excluding Les, because LOL Les-

I find the debate quite intriguing from a legal standpoint (holla sombrio!)

See, the 2nd amendment says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

To me and others, this means that the context of the entire sentence is related to the context of a "well regulated militia". It is basically saying "don't infringe on the right to bear arms that well regulated militias have because they (militias) are necessary to the security of the state".

It makes sense, right? I mean if not interpreted that way the "a well regulated militia" part is a weird, isolated fragment that is out of context.

But even overlooking that, I what makes that right so different from the rest? I mean there is a death penalty despite "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", you need a driver's license despite the freedom of transit, and if you start spreading written rumors about a private citizen like TMZ does with public figures you would be sued for libel, despite the freedom of expression.

[Les / Vipers Rule]

Link above, terrorist attacks globally, from Jan.-June 2016.

Virtually all of them are Islamic fundamentalists of one form or another attacking, typically innocent people who were just going about their lives. One side of the world knows it is at war with the rest of us... The problem is that most of the rest of us especially many in the collective halls of power can't or refuse to accept a war has been declared by a fundamentalist religion.

No amount of Twitter has tags, Twitter collective avatar changes, holding candle/prayer vigils and of painting flowery words of hope, love and peace will stop this fundamentalist poison.

Islamic fundamentalism will need to go through its religious reformation or will in time be at total war with rest of the world, a war it will then ultimately lose. BUT HOW MANY PEOPLE MUST SUFFER AND DIE BEFORE THE REST OF US PUSH IT TOWARDS ITS REFORMATION!?!

Only a consistent, global push back based on political and diplomatic pressure, social shaming, economic forces and if/when need be militaristic efforts will stop this jihadist poison. It will have to push Islam to its reformation or its global death if it refuses under such pressure to invoke reformation.

The choice today is still ours in how and what ways we effectively deal with fundamentalist Islam. But again fundamentalist Islam is at war with the rest of the world. Keeping our collective heads in the sand won't stop it.

[Les / Vipers Rule]

[Swerve]

[thewalrus]

[the_edge]

[Les / Vipers Rule]

To answer my earlier question on U.S. Bill of Rights. The government does not grant Americans their rights as per the Constitution and Bill of Rights. For Americans the rights they have are by nature of being born into or otherwise becoming American citizens. God given one can say. The Bill of Rights protect all Americans from any infringement of them by the Federal government. Government and its officials often try to impose upon Americans the idea that they grant to and can arbitrarily control or take away these rights. Many Americans fall for this fallacy. Yes, rights are often being challenged by government and through the courts, but these rights pre-exist all. Amending the Bill of Rights is and should be a very hard to do. Liberty trumps all in the USA, hence why IMO the US Constitution and its Bill of Rights is the greatest man made civic/social document to ever be penned for society. All nations would be better served if they had this same type document... It's too bad that it seems many Americans do not see nor appreciate this gift that their founding fathers gave them.

[ryguy79]

Opening a thread by les is like driving past a car wreck.

[tut]

Having done that recently, first one on scene, middle of nowhere, no. Not at all.

[tut]

Also, something I just learnt the other day, American knife laws appear to be heaps stricter than their gun laws. That surprised me....

[the_edge]