What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby SBF » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:09 pm

I'm not accepting the answers of that they need to close up shop or give up, etc. They could pull it off, but the General needs to back them up.

At one time they were the epitome of luxury, a standard if you will, but by the early 70's they fell into the bean counter culture and became the joke of luxury soon there after.

They have been getting better since the bailout and I feel like they could take on the likes of Mercedes and BMW, but they are still lacking something. What that is, I'm not sure.

I feel like they need a flagship luxury sedan to take on the likes of the S class and 7 series. Something large and loaded to the gills with luxury offerings. They need to develop a new chassis instead of it being based off an existing one that was developed in Micronesia for GM Korea.

What say you?
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby tut » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:00 am

on topic: i have no idea. apart from going upscale like bentley

unrelated; i know BMW has a fancy classy ring to it, but jeesh they're buckets of shit :/
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby thewalrus » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:50 pm

I almost wonder if they need to revise their styling. The hard-edged, sci-fi looking trend was really novel in the early 2000s - but is it starting to look a little dated, almost? I also wonder if the sharp edges and extreme angles aren't turning off some of the wealthier, more conservative personalities that they need to be pursing.

Maybe going back and touching on the earlier 50s / 60s styling cues would be good. Without going full-on retro, of course.
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby 1300zuk » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:22 pm

I think they need a distinctly American flagship besides the escalade. They should make fun of BMW luxury, because people who want a BMW buy a bmw or a Hyundai.

They should forge their own path instead of try to copy BMW, MB, Infiniti, and Lexus
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby Turbojett » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:56 am

thewalrus wrote:Maybe going back and touching on the earlier 50s / 60s styling cues would be good. Without going full-on retro, of course.


Well they kind of are. Those "light pipe" taillights are meant to evoke the tailfins of the late 50s, if not in looks per se, then in concept--it was new, it's flashy, it's intriguing, it's become a styling signature, a calling card.

As far as on topic, you can build world class cars on par with BMW and Mercedes, but American cars still have a reputation overseas as being shit cars, even though they really aren't anymore. Thirty years of building shit cars isn't going to be undone by building a few years of good cars and more recently, great cars.

The damage has been done, and as you all well know, it takes less effort to destroy than to create, and even more effort than that to repair. If they want to be seen truly as the Standard of the World again, they have to keep working at it, and they still have quite a lot to do.

They're big again in America, but that isn't enough for the world. But as long as they continue to improve, the day will come--not soon, maybe not even in our generation because we know what they were at their worst, and our minds may not be easily changed--but maybe our children and their peers across the world, not knowing the bad old days, would see Cadillac differently.
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby thewalrus » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:40 pm

Turbojett wrote:
thewalrus wrote:
They're big again in America, but that isn't enough for the world. But as long as they continue to improve, the day will come--not soon, maybe not even in our generation because we know what they were at their worst, and our minds may not be easily changed--but maybe our children and their peers across the world, not knowing the bad old days, would see Cadillac differently.


Is there enough time for that? I firmly believe that the auto industry has maybe 2 decades left in its current form. After that it'll be auto-driving cars from Google and Apple and maybe a couple of the biggest automakers - but that's about it.
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby Pennzoil GT-R » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:09 am

Design and refinement, as always. Cadillac are still concerned with ticking all the latest feature boxes without realising they need to get the old ones right first.

Clunky gearboxes and cheap leather are not enough to compete in the luxury segment, especially with how far the likes of Mercedes have come in recent years.
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby Honor » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:31 am

A Time Machine
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby Turbojett » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:11 pm

thewalrus wrote:
Turbojett wrote:
thewalrus wrote:
They're big again in America, but that isn't enough for the world. But as long as they continue to improve, the day will come--not soon, maybe not even in our generation because we know what they were at their worst, and our minds may not be easily changed--but maybe our children and their peers across the world, not knowing the bad old days, would see Cadillac differently.


Is there enough time for that? I firmly believe that the auto industry has maybe 2 decades left in its current form. After that it'll be auto-driving cars from Google and Apple and maybe a couple of the biggest automakers - but that's about it.


I still believe personally-driven cars will be a thing, even if it's just a specialty/novelty thing or just a mode on self-driven cars.
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby thewalrus » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:59 pm

As a novelty on tracks? Absolutely. Just like horse riding. But I can't see how you could have a mode that lets you switch to human-driven when on real roads. I think the upshot of auto-driving cars will be that the whole system will function more effectively - more quickly, with better use of space and time. A driven car will fuck all of that up - because you'd have one yahoo merging erratically, driving too slow, or following too far behind. Then consider the insurance consequences for the person who decides to "drive" their own car in that system. Every accident will be their fault. And the likelihood of an accident will go way up. I bet you couldn't even get insurance.
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby Turbojett » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:17 am

I still don't believe that self-driven cars are going to be as ubiquitous as you think in 20 years. Perhaps as common as hybrids are now, but at most I think, in twenty years they'll have their own lanes on the highway and there will be laws stating that they need to stay right on surface roads--unless they need to turn left of course, but even then they could still have their own lane with their own traffic signal cycle.
Now fifty years, that's a different story. Autonomous cars will have the bulk of the freeway, and human driven cars will have their own separate lanes on the freeway and surface streets, assuming they can still drive on the streets. But I still believe they will still be around and driven, even if they aren't being made anymore.
There is still going to have to be a period where self-driven and manually-driven cars have to share the road.
It's not going to happen in the blink of an eye, where one day we go from none, to standard issue for everybody the next. Meaning there's going to have to be some sort of sensory system in place in autonomous cars to allow them to avoid the regular cars still on the road.
As far as insurance goes, it's strictly for protection against human error. If cars are driving themselves, there would be no human error, so insuring a self-driving car would be pointless. So of course you will be able to have your human-driven car insured because that's going to be their entire clientele.
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby thewalrus » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:08 pm

Turbojett wrote:I still don't believe that self-driven cars are going to be as ubiquitous as you think in 20 years. Perhaps as common as hybrids are now, but at most I think, in twenty years they'll have their own lanes on the highway and there will be laws stating that they need to stay right on surface roads--unless they need to turn left of course, but even then they could still have their own lane with their own traffic signal cycle.
Now fifty years, that's a different story. Autonomous cars will have the bulk of the freeway, and human driven cars will have their own separate lanes on the freeway and surface streets, assuming they can still drive on the streets. But I still believe they will still be around and driven, even if they aren't being made anymore.
There is still going to have to be a period where self-driven and manually-driven cars have to share the road.
It's not going to happen in the blink of an eye, where one day we go from none, to standard issue for everybody the next. Meaning there's going to have to be some sort of sensory system in place in autonomous cars to allow them to avoid the regular cars still on the road.
As far as insurance goes, it's strictly for protection against human error. If cars are driving themselves, there would be no human error, so insuring a self-driving car would be pointless. So of course you will be able to have your human-driven car insured because that's going to be their entire clientele.


Maybe not. And you're probably right. But technology moves fast, and there's a lot of money and demand pushing for auto driving cars. And the technology is very close to being there.

I'm not sure that redesigning our entire infrastructure with dedicated lanes and laws is much easier than just updating existing cars with self driving tech. Especially given how many new cars are drive by wire right now and, I assume could be updated.

And with insurance, the issue is that you've now got far fewer people putting money into the system, with far more risk associated with each driver. The more auto driven are are on the road, the greater the risk. And if an auto-driving car and driven car are in an accident, the fault is going to the 'driver'. Insurance will be insane for driven cars.
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby Swerve » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:51 am

Turbojett wrote:
thewalrus wrote:Maybe going back and touching on the earlier 50s / 60s styling cues would be good. Without going full-on retro, of course.


Well they kind of are. Those "light pipe" taillights are meant to evoke the tailfins of the late 50s, if not in looks per se, then in concept--it was new, it's flashy, it's intriguing, it's become a styling signature, a calling card.

As far as on topic, you can build world class cars on par with BMW and Mercedes, but American cars still have a reputation overseas as being shit cars, even though they really aren't anymore. Thirty years of building shit cars isn't going to be undone by building a few years of good cars and more recently, great cars.

The damage has been done, and as you all well know, it takes less effort to destroy than to create, and even more effort than that to repair. If they want to be seen truly as the Standard of the World again, they have to keep working at it, and they still have quite a lot to do.

They're big again in America, but that isn't enough for the world. But as long as they continue to improve, the day will come--not soon, maybe not even in our generation because we know what they were at their worst, and our minds may not be easily changed--but maybe our children and their peers across the world, not knowing the bad old days, would see Cadillac differently.


Mustang is the highest selling coupe here, despite generally selling for around $50k US (from a quick check on what you can buy, rather than base RRP). Everyone loves it.

Grand Cherokees are one of the top selling SUVs but these might be having a detrimental effect on US quality perception, since everyone I know with one has constant problems. Even my manager, who denies his car being anything other than perfect, was forced to tell me about a string of minor issues after I overheard him on a call with the dealership.

Cadillac should have built that 16 concept.
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Re: What does Cadillac need to become a world contender?

Postby Turbojett » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:58 am

The Mustang's new-ish over there though, isn't it? Like they just started officially selling it in Australia a couple years ago? But yeah, it's always been very popular over here. They have always had a "Mustang for every buyer" philosophy, and it's part of the reason it's so iconic. You can veritably build your own sports coupe exactly the way you want it. Probably the same reason why everybody's eating it up over there. They know the Mustang is an icon, but now they finally see what the fuss is about.

And yes, Cadillac absolutely should have built the Sixteen, as well as the Cien.
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