Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby the_edge » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:40 am

I am using the word "inexpensive" liberally here, and the words "sports car" liberally too, since obviously a 240sx isn't a sports car, but you get the idea, it's much sportier than say, a civic or sentra.

1) Back in the 90s we had true-blue sports cars that didn't cost an arm and a leg, they were expensive, just not ferrari or porsche expensive. Like this:

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Nowadays we have what, the corvette? Even the corvette has gotten more expensive than it used to. "Successors" such as the 370z and rx8 are less sporty and ambitious than the cars they succeeded.

2) We also had very sporty looking and feeling non-sports cars, such as these:

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Nowadays, cars such as the new camaro or challenger are very retro, they don't feel or look like almost-sports cars.

3) We also had all sorts of "regular" cars that tries to pass as sports cars, making the "regular" car market exciting:

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I have a hard time believing the market is now into hyper expensive sports cars (ferraris, lambos, and even the C7 corvette is way pricier than say, the C5 was back in its day) or very expensive cars that don't look as sporty (such as, a BMW M, they're sedans or coupes, they're not swoopy and sexy like say, a Supra), or they go into sedans or non-sporty coupes (e.g. Altima Coupe). The only cars that come to mind we have now are the BRZ, 370z and camaro, and those are definitely not like the 300zx, rx7, etc.

What are your thoughts?
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby Swerve » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:07 am

Z4 with the 3L TT is a pretty awesome sports car. Cayman iand 4C are a bit pricier, but there are various SLKs, Audi TTs etc. Basically, Europe has taken over from Japan.
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby thewalrus » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:56 pm

I think the ND Miata should be seriously considered - very light for it's power rating. Though I guess not exactly what you're thinking of.

I would say that the new Mustang GT packs a pretty huge punch for the money you spend - even (especially) in V6 guise. Then you also have the hot hatches from Subaru and Ford which, while not out and out sports cars, offer superior performance to almost anything in the early 2000s and very reasonable prices.
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby thewalrus » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:59 pm

Less than $40 k off the lot.

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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby SBF » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:37 pm

I wouldn't call the 300zx and Rx-7 inexpensive. In 1993 the Rx-7s base price was $33k. Inflated to today's money that's $53k. Same for the 3z, it was $32k for the base Naturally Aspirated model.

Inexpensive to me would be an everymans car, not a mid-life crisis car. Inexpensive would be the Miata, MR-2, 240sx, etc.

Right now the only cars really in that category (at least in the US) is the Miata and 86 twins.
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby thewalrus » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:46 pm

SBF wrote:I wouldn't call the 300zx and Rx-7 inexpensive. In 1993 the Rx-7s base price was $33k. Inflated to today's money that's $53k. Same for the 3z, it was $32k for the base Naturally Aspirated model.

Inexpensive to me would be an everymans car, not a mid-life crisis car. Inexpensive would be the Miata, MR-2, 240sx, etc.

Right now the only cars really in that category (at least in the US) is the Miata and 86 twins.


I think a strong argument could be made for the 2015 V6 Mustang too. Quite a bit cheaper than the V8, and a performer too.
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby Honor » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:17 pm

ROD since when is a 240SX not a sports car? Sports cars don't necessarily have to have lots of power. I mean we all have our own judgments and opinions but the 240sx was clearly designed to be a driver's car just like the Miata. I think a better case could be made against cars like the Ford Probe or Mitsubishi Eclipse since they're FWD.

There are sports cars and then there are high-performance sports cars. 240sx / miata = sports car, 300ZX / RX7 = high-performance sports car
Last edited by Honor on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby Honor » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:30 pm

thewalrus wrote:
SBF wrote:I wouldn't call the 300zx and Rx-7 inexpensive. In 1993 the Rx-7s base price was $33k. Inflated to today's money that's $53k. Same for the 3z, it was $32k for the base Naturally Aspirated model.

Inexpensive to me would be an everymans car, not a mid-life crisis car. Inexpensive would be the Miata, MR-2, 240sx, etc.

Right now the only cars really in that category (at least in the US) is the Miata and 86 twins.


I think a strong argument could be made for the 2015 V6 Mustang too. Quite a bit cheaper than the V8, and a performer too.


They're more like pony cars or muscle cars though. Arent they close to 4000lbs?
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby thewalrus » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:12 am

Honor wrote:
thewalrus wrote:
SBF wrote:I wouldn't call the 300zx and Rx-7 inexpensive. In 1993 the Rx-7s base price was $33k. Inflated to today's money that's $53k. Same for the 3z, it was $32k for the base Naturally Aspirated model.

Inexpensive to me would be an everymans car, not a mid-life crisis car. Inexpensive would be the Miata, MR-2, 240sx, etc.

Right now the only cars really in that category (at least in the US) is the Miata and 86 twins.


I think a strong argument could be made for the 2015 V6 Mustang too. Quite a bit cheaper than the V8, and a performer too.


They're more like pony cars or muscle cars though. Arent they close to 4000lbs?


There are a number of cars that Rod cited that are directly comparable to a 2015 V6 Mustang. Including the Trans-Am, and the 2+2 Nissan at the top.

4000 lbs or not, the 2015 Mustang is still a performance car bargain.

And when did you turn into Shaman?
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby Honor » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:01 am

It's definitely a performance bargain. I just meant I'm not sure you could really consider it a sports car more than a muscle car or pony car since it is a larger, heavier car with more of an emphasis placed on straight-line acceleration than handling and all around performance like the Miata or BRZ. I dunno, all of this noclemature stuff is kinda stupid anyway. A rose by any other name yada yada yada...
Last edited by Honor on Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby Honor » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:03 am

And who / what is Shaman? A former AF'er? I think that might have been a bit before my time.
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby JaysonAych » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:21 am

Shaman was a prick on the old Car and Driver boards who aggressively followed people around on the Sports/GT car forum who posted about a sporty car and copy pasted "XXXX is not a Sports or GT car and does not belong in this forum."
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby Honor » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:27 am

So, a troll?
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby Les / Vipers Rule » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:00 am

The V-6 pony cars are in the affordable range if one wishes a NEW car. These all make over 300bhp. 20 years ago 300bhp was only attainable with V-8 and turbo V-6 for the most part.

The thing is that more people want hatch backs today and not swoopy coupes. Hot hatches are cool as are many of the 4 dr. sedans (I love the styling of the Dodge Dart for a 4 door sedan) now but the styling of a classic 2 dr. coupe still is the best.

Don't forget the Toyota/Subaru RWD twins. Nice sporty coupes today and still affordable for new cars.

Me, I'll stay with good relatively cheap used cars now.
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby thewalrus » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:16 pm

Honor wrote:It's definitely a performance bargain. I just meant I'm not sure you could really consider it a sports car more than a muscle car or pony car since it is a larger, heavier car with more of an emphasis placed on straight-line acceleration than handling and all around performance like the Miata or BRZ. I dunno, all of this noclemature stuff is kinda stupid anyway. A rose by any other name yada yada yada...


But Honor - he's clearly incorporating pony cars in the discussion here! He says that some of the only options are the BRZ, 370Z and Camaro. I'm just pointing out that the Mustang is also a significantly good option for a cheap, high performance, sports-lie car. I'd also say that the new V6 Mustang, with 300 hp, and especially the Mustang GT are very much of the same vein as the RX7s and Nissan 300Zs from the 90s. Incredible performance for a decent budget. Accounting for inflation, I'd almost guarantee that a Mustang GT gives you more performance for the dollar - and in a sports-car-like package - than any of the Japanese greats from the 90s (Supras, NSXs, RX7s, 300Zs, etc.)
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby Talon » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:23 pm

Can you imagine what a mint, stock, maybe 60k mile, gen3 Supra would be worth these days? 70k, maybe more.
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby Turbojett » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:10 pm

Honor wrote:So, a troll?

ugh. yes.
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby Turbojett » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:14 pm

Les / Vipers Rule wrote:The V-6 pony cars are in the affordable range if one wishes a NEW car. These all make over 300bhp. 20 years ago 300bhp was only attainable with V-8 and turbo V-6 for the most part.

Yeah, I kinda like how the "slow" V6 versions of the pony cars are now about as fast and powerful as the V8 versions of 10-15 years ago. V6 pony cars are pretty much viable as sports cars nowadays, and V8 pony cars pretty much always were.

unfortunately though with all the required equipment on cars nowadays, they're going to end up being pretty heavy. So yeah a Mustang weighs 2 tons, but with the thrust it's got, it hardly matters.
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby thewalrus » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:55 pm

Talon wrote:Can you imagine what a mint, stock, maybe 60k mile, gen3 Supra would be worth these days? 70k, maybe more.


There's a Gen 3 on Kijiji, selling through a dealer, with a claimed 90 some kilometers on it. For $70k.

Still has the plastic on the seats.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/1990-toyota-supra/1033853144?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
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Re: Is there still a market for inexpensive sports cars?

Postby Arthur Dent » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:56 pm

thewalrus wrote:
Talon wrote:Can you imagine what a mint, stock, maybe 60k mile, gen3 Supra would be worth these days? 70k, maybe more.


There's a Gen 3 on Kijiji, selling through a dealer, with a claimed 90 some kilometers on it. For $70k.

Still has the plastic on the seats.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/1990-toyota-supra/1033853144?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


They will own that forever at that price.
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