Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Daytona.

Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Daytona.

Postby Les / Vipers Rule » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:38 pm

Being a life long Mopar fan and one who generally likes the direction, styling, general performance, value and such of most Chryco products, I believe that Chryco needs a sporty, lower priced coupe.

Dodge has Challenger as its legacy, pony car and of course a cool, kick ass car it is even in 305bhp V-6 form. Of course Challenger Hellcat is as one might say, "to die for." Dodge has Charger as it main sedan from V-6 to super charged V-8. Dodge has its Viper as it top halo car. It has Dart for its sub compact and affordable sedan and I really like the Dart. It has mini vans and SUV's but no say modern day incarnation of the then cool Daytona.

I often still miss my Shelby Z.

I would welcome a 2 door sporty coupe and return of the Daytona name plate. Base models could be the 2.4L Tigershark engine with 6 speed manual or 6 speed auto and front drive. As one moves up add a 3.6L V-6 to mid line models with 6 speed manual or 9 speed auto and the top model would be an AWD with 3.6L V-6 and again I'd want a 6 speed manual or 9 speed auto as a choice.

Dodge Daytona would be styled more sporty, handle more crisply and offer a wider price range from as value leaders in oh $15,000, to mid lines 4cyl and V-6 FWD in the $20,000-$25,000 range and TOTL AWD V-6 say about $28,000-$30,000.

Dodge model names could be:
Dodge Daytona (2.4L FWD 6 speed manual)
Dodge Daytona SE (2.4L FWD 6 speed auto)
Dodge Daytona SXT (2.4L FWD 6 speed manual)
Dodge Daytona SXT-AWD (3.6L AWD 9 speed auto)
Dodge Daytona RT (3.6L FWD 6 speed manual)
Dodge Daytona SRT (3.6 AWD 6 speed manual)
Dodge Daytona RT-Limited (3.6L AWD 9 speeds auto)


Chryco could make a Chrysler labeled model, Sebring. A more upscale, GT like model with fewer choices say FWD 3.6L and an AWD 3.6L. price range starting as $22,000 up to say $34,000.

Chrysler Model names:
Sebring SE (3.6L FWD 6 speed manual)
Sebring Limited (3.6L FWD 9 speed auto)
Sebring GT (3.6L AWD 6 speed manual)
Sebring GTS (3.6L AWD 9 speed manual)


Meh, just thinking about a product area Chryco has no car choices in. And IMO the return of two cool names for both.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby thewalrus » Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:16 pm

Why not make them RWD and offer it as a serious competitor to the BRZ / Genesis Coupe genre of vehicles? Even do away with the AWD option - and just offer it as something sporty, light, and driver oriented with seating for 2 adults and 2 kids (or two additional, very uncomfortable adults).

Otherwise, aside from the number doors, what would separate this from a Dart?
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby Arthur Dent » Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:19 pm

A very quick mock up but something along the lines of a coupe based off the Dart would be nice. Is there a big enough market? I dunno ...
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby Les / Vipers Rule » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:01 pm

thewalrus wrote:Why not make them RWD and offer it as a serious competitor to the BRZ / Genesis Coupe genre of vehicles? Even do away with the AWD option - and just offer it as something sporty, light, and driver oriented with seating for 2 adults and 2 kids (or two additional, very uncomfortable adults).

Otherwise, aside from the number doors, what would separate this from a Dart?


I'd like that with RWD. but I don't think Chryco has a suitable RWD platform in the mix. My thinking was that these cars would be based on the Dart's platform which of course is used for the Chrysler 200 in stretched variant. Since the 200 has FWD and AWD options I figured these would be cost effective bases for a 2 door smaller, sportier coupe for Dodge and Chrysler.

My price points top out before one gets into the base price point for Challenger.

The diff between these and Dart is mostly styling (2 door vs 4 door), tuning for a more sportier ride in Dodge and a more GT ride for Chrysler and maybe a bit lighter than the Dart would be in FWD variant at least.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby Les / Vipers Rule » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:02 pm

Arthur Dent wrote:A very quick mock up but something along the lines of a coupe based off the Dart would be nice. Is there a big enough market? I dunno ...


Interesting.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby Les / Vipers Rule » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:15 pm

I see these coupes competing with KIA Forte and Hyundai Elantra, (including sorta also Veloster) coupes. Honda Civic coupe, and sorta with VW Beetle. The Toyota and Subaru RWD 2 doors are in the mix but different.

It's too bad the market for smaller 2 door coupe type cars is few as these can be cool looking, nice performing and affordable sporty cars.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby thewalrus » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:57 pm

Les / Vipers Rule wrote:I see these coupes competing with KIA Forte and Hyundai Elantra, (including sorta also Veloster) coupes. Honda Civic coupe, and sorta with VW Beetle. The Toyota and Subaru RWD 2 doors are in the mix but different.

It's too bad the market for smaller 2 door coupe type cars is few as these can be cool looking, nice performing and affordable sporty cars.


I have to admit, I was very impressed with the new version of the New Beetle. A substantial improvement on the older version. Nicer profile. Better feel on the inside. Works well with the diesel engine.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby Les / Vipers Rule » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:54 am

I guess for Chryco, the Fiat 500 comes as a 2 and 4 door hatch. It's not and American built car but it does offer to those who like its funky styling ( it's not for me though) a small commuter car and small sporty hatch.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby JaysonAych » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:12 am

Les / Vipers Rule wrote:Being a life long Mopar fan and one who generally likes the direction, styling, general performance, value and such of most Chryco products, I believe that Chryco needs a sporty, lower priced coupe.

Dodge has Challenger as its legacy, pony car and of course a cool, kick ass car it is even in 305bhp V-6 form. Of course Challenger Hellcat is as one might say, "to die for." Dodge has Charger as it main sedan from V-6 to super charged V-8. Dodge has its Viper as it top halo car. It has Dart for its sub compact and affordable sedan and I really like the Dart. It has mini vans and SUV's but no say modern day incarnation of the then cool Daytona.

I often still miss my Shelby Z.

I would welcome a 2 door sporty coupe and return of the Daytona name plate. Base models could be the 2.4L Tigershark engine with 6 speed manual or 6 speed auto and front drive. As one moves up add a 3.6L V-6 to mid line models with 6 speed manual or 9 speed auto and the top model would be an AWD with 3.6L V-6 and again I'd want a 6 speed manual or 9 speed auto as a choice.


I really miss the proliferation of fastback hatches. There's not many left out there anymore. I know that the utility of a wagon-styled hatch like the Golf or Focus or whatever makes the fastback hatch a hard sell, but they just don't have the sporty profile. I'd love something like that out there, but the Scion tC, Veloster, and 370z are about the only things out there in the realm of affordability, the former two being quite stylistically-challenged, and the latter being somewhat pricey.

Chryco could make a Chrysler labeled model, Sebring.


Chrysler did quite enough to the name "Sebring" to ensure it will never appear on another production car ever again, unless it's pacing a race at the actual Sebring.

thewalrus wrote:Why not make them RWD and offer it as a serious competitor to the BRZ / Genesis Coupe genre of vehicles? Even do away with the AWD option - and just offer it as something sporty, light, and driver oriented with seating for 2 adults and 2 kids (or two additional, very uncomfortable adults).


I would love this, but like Les said, Chrysler doesn't have a small enough RWD platform for this. Almost no one does. The Challenger, Mustang, and Camaro all sit on large platforms. Even the Genesis is a pretty big car. Very few mainstream companies have a way to make a hatch that could compete with the BRZ or FR-S without investing a big chunk of change; Mazda's the only company I can think of that has the platform to do it. Nissan has the Z car but they market it more upscale. The market's just not there. The BRZ/FR-S isn't exactly lighting up sales charts, Chevy just recently said they can't make a business case for that Code 130R concept they had a few years ago. At the lower end of the market, people want all of the everyday utility they can get. No one seems to be able to figure out how to make a smaller RWD car that can start out around $19k, which is where I think a car like that would need to be to hit that spot between "settling for a low end Kia sedan" and "reaching up for a Mustang."
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby ryguy79 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:00 am

Arthur Dent wrote:A very quick mock up but something along the lines of a coupe based off the Dart would be nice. Is there a big enough market? I dunno ...


Looks like a ten year old scion.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby Arthur Dent » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:17 pm

ryguy79 wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:A very quick mock up but something along the lines of a coupe based off the Dart would be nice. Is there a big enough market? I dunno ...


Looks like a ten year old scion.


I thought it looked a bit Pontiac G6 coupe.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby Turbojett » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:37 am

Arthur Dent wrote:
ryguy79 wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:A very quick mock up but something along the lines of a coupe based off the Dart would be nice. Is there a big enough market? I dunno ...


Looks like a ten year old scion.


I thought it looked a bit Pontiac G6 coupe.

I was thinking Elantra coupe.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby Turbojett » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:45 am

I was thinking about this the other day. It occurred to me that FCA does have a smaller, 3-series sized RWD platform that could support something like this. And better yet, the platform is engineered to be modular and come in whatever wheelbase you need:
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby Turbojett » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:51 am

My thing is though, that Daytona is currently being used on the Charger, and I don't think Dodge is going to take that off and slap it on a different car. There's other names from Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler's past that could be used for such a car. Coronet, Demon, Duster, GTX, that sort of thing.
...maybe even a car that's actually deserving of the name "Avenger" that doesn't suck.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby Talon » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:47 am

The Alfa is sexy. I don't even want to know how much replacement parts cost, though.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby Turbojett » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:38 am

Yeah but it could still be done in America, with American-made parts based off of the Italian prototypes, much like the Dart was. Even if the Dart wasn't a winner, doesn't mean that this couldn't be.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby SBF » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:28 pm

Problem is, in the eyes of FCA, they already have a sporty coupe, the Challenger. If you're talking about a more compact Coupe, that is a fastback of some sort (i.e. hatchback/liftback), that somewhat resembles the old Daytona, then that would make sense. However, the problem is, and has been for a while, is that particular body style is virtually dead. I honestly don't know who even has an honest-to-god liftback style Coupe anymore. The FRS/BRZ is the first car that comes to mind, but that actually has a trunk.

I think turbojett has the right idea though and it needs to have another name.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby Turbojett » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:43 pm

I think the last true liftback coupe was the Scion tC, and it's not being made anymore. No other recent car like that comes to mind. The bodystyle has been moribund for awhile. But If somebody could do it right, it could make a comeback.
I think what the idea here is, is to concieve a sub-Challenger sporty coupe to revitalize the sport compact market. The Challenger is a fantastic car, but it was built to be a big brawny muscle car; it's a sledge mallet. I kinda like the idea of them having an X-acto knife to go along with it.
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Re: Dodge needs an affordable sporty coupe, say a new Dayton

Postby SBF » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:52 pm

But you have to remember that everything is a bean counter mentality anymore. The Dart and the 200 are dead because FCA jumped into two different markets that had very strong contenders and they didn't do enough development on either car most likely because of cost of R&D, so FCA put them on the chopping block. The other HUGE mistake was that FCA didn't make a Dart SRT model. They could have easily made a 2.4L Tigershark Turbo with some good Recaros and it could have easily been a competitor to the Focus ST which was and has been a great selling car.

My point is that I don't think you can revive the liftback Coupe market unless you market it towards teenagers and college students, because those are the only people I see driving Mitsubishi Eclipses and Scion tCs. If you want to market it towards grown men and enthusiasts, you need to have them involved in a racing series like SCCA (think the original Neon ACR), then have it air on TV (I remember they used to show random SCCA racing on ABC on Sunday mornings when I was a kid during Wide World of Sports) and that will get men of age to come in the dealer doors to buy a vehicle that would otherwise be popular for the Taylor Swift crowd.

Don't regard what I'm saying as being a Debbie Downer towards the idea, I would be one of the first people to welcome back a FWD liftback coupe. It to me, is just a dead market. All the manufacturers feel that people want 5-Door hatchback pocket rockets, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but people want to be able to stuff their kids in the back seat while they are doing 120mph into a guardrail (or Cars and Coffee crowd). I honestly am surprised the Sedan is still popular in the compact car market. I think a FoST Sedan would be cool, but I've always preferred the Sedan to the Hatch when it comes to most cars anyways (and this is someone who has a Focus Hatch).
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