Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby thewalrus » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:00 pm

Honor wrote:They should at least make a turbo version like Hyundai does with the Veloster. It could compete with the 370z. Right now the fastest ive seen is a 14.9 1/4 mile. Realistically 15s. Maybe you can beat some minivans with it.


You're missing the point dude. Why would they do that, when straight line speed isn't what the BRZ is about? It appeals to a different set of people for different reasons. Just like the Miata. What happened when Mazda made the Mazdaspeed Miata? The thing wasn't all that special. They haven't made another one for a number of years. Didn't sell. And from the reviews I recall reading, most journalists felt they'd rather just have the N/A model. The MSMiata lost some of the charm and the balance. The people that wanted more straight line speed out of their roadsters still just bought the S2000, or the 350Z. Or bought the regular Miata and modified it to their tastes through Flyin' Miata or whatnot.

I guarantee that if Subaru or Scion brought out a turbo version, the same thing would happen. Middling sales. People looking for straight line speed still going for 370s or Velosters or V-6 Mustangs instead. A car that's suddenly seeming a bit compromised and a little less pure.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby Honor » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:11 pm

I guess. I just never want to go back to owning a slow car. Power and speed are delightful.

Now if I was going to be doing tight autox courses or something I'd probably consider the BRZ, but for everyday street driving? I'll take the power of a turbo or displacement.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby Talon » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:47 pm

Honor wrote:Now if I was going to be doing tight autox courses or something I'd probably consider the BRZ, but for everyday street driving? I'll take the power of a turbo or displacement.


Yea, I have to agree here. I know what the BRZ is all about, and it would make for a hella fun track car. But, unless you have one dedicated for the track and something else to dd, then it's too slow for what it is.

My RSX-S makes 200 at the wheels on a Mustang, so it would walk one of the BRZs and even it feels slow and sluggish.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby thewalrus » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:53 pm

Honor wrote:I guess. I just never want to go back to owning a slow car. Power and speed are delightful.

Now if I was going to be doing tight autox courses or something I'd probably consider the BRZ, but for everyday street driving? I'll take the power of a turbo or displacement.


But it's not a slow car. It's light weight enough, and highly powered enough, to be quick. Just not fast.

Have you ever driven a nible, well balanced car, quickly, on the street? Something like a Miata? You can comfortably explore the cars limits without getting arrested. Meanwhile you're not drinking half an Exxon Valdez worth of gasoline to do it. You don't need to have overwhelming power to have a ton of fun. Heck, you don't even need it to go fast.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby Honor » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:56 pm

I don't think most people see many opportunities to explore the capabilites of a slow/nimble car on the street as compared to a faster / less nimble one. I guess it depends on where you live. If you were near alot of back country roads, a miata or something could be fun. To be honest, I'm not entirely comfortable pushing cars around corners at speed anyway. Alot more potential to fuck up imo.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby ryguy79 » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:40 am

Honor wrote:I don't think most people see many opportunities to explore the capabilites of a slow/nimble car on the street as compared to a faster / less nimble one. I guess it depends on where you live. If you were near alot of back country roads, a miata or something could be fun. To be honest, I'm not entirely comfortable pushing cars around corners at speed anyway. Alot more potential to fuck up imo.



I found and exceeded the limits of my CRX more times than I can remember. But I was surrounded by twisty roads in a sparsely populated area. So yeah, people can, and do, find the limits on the road. I don't know if I would do the same now, but in my early 20s, heck yes.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby ryguy79 » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:46 am

Also, were I not married/a dad/live in a place where it snows/spend a lot of time with a bike or kayak on the car/etc, I'd totally daily one of these. Its a car and mindset that I find very attractive. If only they'd been making cars like these 10 years ago, I wouldn't have bought my Mustang.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby Turbojett » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:43 am

Talon wrote:
Honor wrote:Now if I was going to be doing tight autox courses or something I'd probably consider the BRZ, but for everyday street driving? I'll take the power of a turbo or displacement.


Yea, I have to agree here. I know what the BRZ is all about, and it would make for a hella fun track car. But, unless you have one dedicated for the track and something else to dd, then it's too slow for what it is.

My RSX-S makes 200 at the wheels on a Mustang, so it would walk one of the BRZs and even it feels slow and sluggish.

but your Teg is also heavier (and probably not geared as closely). Don't think power alone, think power-to-weight. For example, your basic S2 Lotus Elise isn't much more powerful. But it's still a fast car because it's so lightweight.

at any rate, even if you did want a turbo or more power, the aftermarket for these things is growing like kudzu. Shouldn't be too hard to find parts or a tuner who can set it up just right.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby Honor » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:16 pm

RSXs and BRZs weigh like the same. Around 2600-2700 lbs iirc.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby Talon » Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:55 pm

ryguy79 wrote:Also, were I not married/a dad/live in a place where it snows/spend a lot of time with a bike or kayak on the car/etc, I'd totally daily one of these. Its a car and mindset that I find very attractive. If only they'd been making cars like these 10 years ago, I wouldn't have bought my Mustang.



And that's the car's problem. They're marketed for a guy who can appreciate what it is (like .5% of consumers out there) and aren't tied down by much of anything. At a price that's only $600 less than a WRX (just checked Sub's site), which offers four doors, AWD, a decent amount of power, etc. it's priced out of it's attractiveness, IMO.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby Talon » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:00 pm

Turbojett wrote:
Talon wrote:
Honor wrote:Now if I was going to be doing tight autox courses or something I'd probably consider the BRZ, but for everyday street driving? I'll take the power of a turbo or displacement.


Yea, I have to agree here. I know what the BRZ is all about, and it would make for a hella fun track car. But, unless you have one dedicated for the track and something else to dd, then it's too slow for what it is.

My RSX-S makes 200 at the wheels on a Mustang, so it would walk one of the BRZs and even it feels slow and sluggish.

but your Teg is also heavier (and probably not geared as closely). Don't think power alone, think power-to-weight. For example, your basic S2 Lotus Elise isn't much more powerful. But it's still a fast car because it's so lightweight.

at any rate, even if you did want a turbo or more power, the aftermarket for these things is growing like kudzu. Shouldn't be too hard to find parts or a tuner who can set it up just right.



lulz, what do you think I am some sort of n00b? The BRZ weighs 2775 lbs. The 2003 RSX-S is 2721 lbs. My car is actually lighter.

It's also geared almost annoyingly close. Remember how small the powerband is on the RSX-S from the factory: 6000-8000 rpm. It has to be geared close enough that you never leave that band of rpms. Now mine has been KPro tuned and the powerband is much much more broad. But, that only helps my case.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby thewalrus » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:24 pm

Talon wrote:
ryguy79 wrote:Also, were I not married/a dad/live in a place where it snows/spend a lot of time with a bike or kayak on the car/etc, I'd totally daily one of these. Its a car and mindset that I find very attractive. If only they'd been making cars like these 10 years ago, I wouldn't have bought my Mustang.



And that's the car's problem. They're marketed for a guy who can appreciate what it is (like .5% of consumers out there) and aren't tied down by much of anything. At a price that's only $600 less than a WRX (just checked Sub's site), which offers four doors, AWD, a decent amount of power, etc. it's priced out of it's attractiveness, IMO.


I think you're partially right there. I don't necessarily think it's priced out of it's attractivness - since you could still buy more power for less money, even if it was $4, or $5 thousand cheaper. The bigger issue is its true competition. The Miata. You get essentially everything you have in the BRZ, but with the added benefit of a drop top. The BRZ isn't about numbers or practicality. It's either a first car for someone with no need for a practical car, or a second car. The hard top won't make an appreciable difference in handling or rigidity or weight. And the people that will enjoy exploring a perfectly balanced car's entertaining, but modest, limits, will, I think, almost certainly go for something that opens the experience up to the outside world - a roadster - instead. That you can buy the Miata with a hard top convertible now makes it an eve more appealing option.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby ConeDodger » Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:58 pm

Why does a car have to be fast in a straight line to be fun?
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby SBF » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:28 pm

ConeDodger wrote:Why does a car have to be fast in a straight line to be fun?


You're right, it doesn't have to. That's why I like the Corvair. It's not fast, but it handles awesome.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby Turbojett » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:17 pm

going straight is boring. I want a dance floor dammit.

and yeah, okay, I overestimated the RSX's weight by a very negligible amount. I mean hell, that extra 54lbs is gonna murder its acceleration. It certainly won't "walk" a BRZ though.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby Turbojett » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:48 pm

Eh, actually, whatever. Haters gonna hate. The car's awesome for what it is.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby Honor » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:50 pm

Nobody said we all have to agree on our car preferences. And its not like im talking about a drag car here. Corvettes, Evos, WRXs all handle well and theyre fast too.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby Talon » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:18 pm

ConeDodger wrote:Why does a car have to be fast in a straight line to be fun?


It doesn't. That wasn't my argument. My thinking is it's a very niche car, and if you're not in that niche (which 99.99% of people aren't), sales are going to suffer.

Hell, my original issue was it needs a turbo. Can you imagine that with the WRX 2.0l motor putting out 235hp/tq? After an exhaust and tune it would be an Exige fighter right there.
Last edited by Talon on Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby Talon » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:28 pm

Turbojett wrote:going straight is boring. I want a dance floor dammit.

and yeah, okay, I overestimated the RSX's weight by a very negligible amount. I mean hell, that extra 54lbs is gonna murder its acceleration. It certainly won't "walk" a BRZ though.



Going straight is alright. If you're talking drag racing, then okay. But most road courses have straights. And I'll tell ya', it's really frustrating being faster than someone in the turns but they easily get away on the straights (read: n00b Vette drivers :evil: ) only to be stuck behind them in the turns again.

You said my car weighed more, and your argument was it weighed enough more that the BRZ had a better or similar power/weight. Stock for stock yes, but my car is putting down 50 more hp at the crank and 40 more at the wheels. I'd say that's "walk" worthy, but whatever...

The BRZ would be a great track whore. But you'd be competing with Miatas and stock Hondas more than S2s, Evos, and 370Zs.
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Re: Currently Madly in Lust with These Things.

Postby thewalrus » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:08 am

Honor wrote:Nobody said we all have to agree on our car preferences. And its not like im talking about a drag car here. Corvettes, Evos, WRXs all handle well and theyre fast too.


There's still a difference between good handling, and light weight, flickable fun. A Miata has it. I imagine the BRZ does, too. Other cars don't have it - even though they handle really well.
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